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Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
Hux, when you said "blame her father" you hit he nail on the head. I'm 75 years old and I've seen a good part of the world, raised a family and had more life experience than most. Apparently B.J.Wie hasn't heard of this basic fact when dealing with a teenage prodigy: NEVER put too much pressure on the youngster or force them into any stressful situations. I read somewhere on this board that BJ said that "she just has to play more." He is 100% wrong. He is acting like the worst type of stage mother. That is almost child abuse. Anyone who knows a thing about psychology concerning a child will tell you to let the kid develop at her own speed. One of the dumbest comments I've heard from the Wie publicity machine is that Michelle supposedly likes to travel with her parents. Now that's funny. But if it is true I can guarantee that she is the ONLY 16 year-old girl in the US that likes to travel solo with her parents.:-)
01/17/06 @ 11:30
Comment from: June [Visitor]
I don't think BJ was entirely wrong. Just think about how many tournaments those amateur played per year on the junior circuit?

I don't have a number but I doubt Michelle has ever played more tournaments per year than typical amateurs per year (say, Pressel, Creamer, In Bee Park, etc.)

Michelle has to play to improve her game and also to earn her living (since she is apro now and like she needs more money as of now?) and pro tournaments are her only option right now?

10-13 tournament per year is just right amount of exposure if you asked me.
01/17/06 @ 12:05
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
June baby, Nobody asked you.
01/17/06 @ 12:09
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]
I agree that the onus should be placed on Wie's father, but I maintain that their behavior can be explained as slick marketing.

Listen, people can talk all they want about her skills and distance -- which are, mind you, the best of any 16-year-old girl to come down the pike -- but if you think that she would have gotten these plum contracts at this juncture without doing the "Ali thing," I have some land in Normsville to sell you.

Where I have to part company with you, John, is when you scoff at the assertion that she likes to travel with her parents. While it certainly isn't the norm in our twisted culture, a well-adjusted kid would have that attitude. I can tell you this: among homeschooled teens that attitude would predominate. Why, I myself liked traveling with my parents when I was 16. Ideally, families should be close and should enjoy spending time with each other.

The only time that is not the case is when the "world" has seduced kids away from the family.
01/17/06 @ 12:25
Comment from: Lester Hinson [Visitor]
Under Par wrote:
"Where I have to part company with you, John, is when you scoff at the assertion that she likes to travel with her parents. While it certainly isn't the norm in our twisted culture, a well-adjusted kid would have that attitude. I can tell you this: among homeschooled teens that attitude would predominate."


Oh, God! One of those loons. Home-schooling: The last refuge of nut bags who are one angry letter to the editor away from erecting a compound and arming their followers.
01/17/06 @ 12:41
Comment from: June [Visitor]
And anybody asked it to you, John Z?
01/17/06 @ 13:47
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
Lester, what in the pluperfect hell are you talking about? This is supposed to be a GOLF message board, or am I wrong?
01/17/06 @ 13:50
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]

You have just shown yourself to be an ignorant jerk. Homeschooled kids are VASTLY superior to other kids by ANY measure. They are many grades ahead of government-schooled kids in every subject and even, contrary to the myth that your ilk likes to perpetuate, are far better adjusted.

Have you every heard a homeschooled child call a radio show? I have on more than one occasion. They speak in complete sentences and can discuss complex issues maturely without uttering "likes," "yos" or street slang.

Also, Lester (what a name, "Lester" -- sounds like a nerd serial-killer), have you ever known any homeschooling families? Well, since I know the answer, I'll tell you that the group comprises all races, ethnicities and creeds -- some are even secular, believe it or not.

So, what unites them? It's simple: a reluctance to thrust their beloved children into a dangerous environment rife with negative influences, an environment in which the kids will be indoctrinated with lefist ideas such as feminism, multiculturalism and radical-environmentalism. Yeah, they're really bad people.

Lastly, Lesterer, since I'm thoroughly disgusted with you, I'll say the following. Not only can I trounce you in a debate, but I could also beat you like I was yo' daddy, you little liberal wuss you. And I'd enjoy it right about now.
01/17/06 @ 13:58
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
June baby, sure I was asked, by popular demand. What about you? By the way, June, what is your native language? I know it isn't English. You don't do too bad for a recent immigrant.Congratulations
01/17/06 @ 14:07
Comment from: RonMon [Visitor]
Wasn't she taking exams this week? I made the mistake of the "staying in school" denial. Did she drop out yesterday?
01/17/06 @ 14:20
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
u-p, hey calm down, man. Lester is a proud leftie. I can tell by the way he carries his purse.Normally I would advise you to lay off the political stuff, but since he started it, let him have it with both barrels. Your comment that Lester sounds like a nerd serial killer struck a funny nerve for me. Many years ago when I was a recruit in the USMC at Parris Island, we had a DI named Lester who we gave the handle "Lester the MOlester." To be sure we never called him that to his face. He was a veteran of five Pacific invasions and a Marine through and through and one tough hombre.
01/17/06 @ 14:25
Comment from: Wayne [Visitor]
Wow, this chart puts things in real perspective. 5 good rounds and only 3 bad rounds for Michelle. 4 good rounds and 10 bad rounds for Tiger. Michelle needs to play as much competitive golf as she can to learn. Tiger never even broke 70 before he was 20 on the PGA tour while trying to make a cut!

Tiger Woods BIRTHDATE: December 30, 1975

3/01/92 Nissan Los Angeles Open CUT 72 75 -- -- -- 147 +5

2/28/93 Nissan Los Angeles Open CUT 74 78 -- -- -- 152 +10
3/14/93 Honda Classic CUT 72 78 -- -- -- 150 +6
5/16/93 GTE Byron Nelson Golf Classic CUT 77 72 -- -- -- 149 +9

3/20/94 Nestle Invitational CUT 80 77 -- -- -- 157 +13
6/12/94 Buick Classic CUT 75 70 -- -- -- 145 +3
7/03/94 Motorola Western Open CUT 74 75 -- -- -- 149 +5

Michelle Wie BIRTHDATE: October 11, 1989

1/18/04 Sony Open in Hawaii CUT 72 68 -- -- -- 140 E

1/16/05 Sony Open in Hawaii CUT 75 74 -- -- -- 149 +9
7/10/05 John Deere Classic CUT 70 71 -- -- -- 141 -1

1/15/06 Sony Open in Hawaii CUT 79 68 -- -- -- 147 +7
01/17/06 @ 14:32
Comment from: Jackson [Visitor]
Wayne, what you and the other Wie fools convienently leave out of the Tiger/Michelle converation is what Tiger did when he was 20, the year you drop the comparison. All he did that year was win(I can give you a defenition of this word if you like, Wie and her fans are not used to hearing it) two tournaments and finish in the top 30 on the money list in just 7 appearences on the PGA tour. The clock is ticking on this ridiculous comparison, enjoy it while you can, because in four years when Michelle is still struggling to make a single cut on the PGA tour and possibly is still winless on the LPGA tour you will no longer be able to trot out that assinine Tiger Woods comparsion---Ickey Woods maybe, Tiger get real.
01/17/06 @ 14:44
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
Hey, u-p, somewhere on this board I found a post by one of these numbskulls that said that YOU were ME! Are you aware of that one? Looks like we got another maniac, Wayne, who has out his spreadsheet to prove that MW is better than Tiger Woods. Sure Wayne, you just keep believing that and soon you'll have a nice room with a steel door and rubber wallpaper.
01/17/06 @ 15:17
Comment from: Wayne [Visitor]
Hey Jackson

Blah blah blah. Just tired of people telling Wie to stop playing against the men. She only has a bunch of tournaments on the LPGA that she can accept and if she were to forget about the men's tournament she'd find herself not competing for a couple of months at a time. Remember she's only 16 and is a full time student.

Take a look a Tiger's numbers and tell me he didn't learn anything from playing against the best. He learned a lot about golf management -- when to take a chance and be aggressive or lay it up and cut down on mistakes. Michelle is learning the same things while competing. The more tournaments she has under her belt, the better a golfer she will be. By the time she's 18 or 20, she'd be well schooled, just like Tiger.
01/17/06 @ 15:32
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
Under Par said:
Homeschooled kids are VASTLY superior to other kids by ANY measure. They are many grades ahead of government-schooled kids in every subject and even, contrary to the myth that your ilk likes to perpetuate, are far better adjusted.

So, what unites them? It's simple: a reluctance to thrust their beloved children into a dangerous environment rife with negative influences, an environment in which the kids will be indoctrinated with lefist ideas such as feminism, multiculturalism and radical-environmentalism. Yeah, they're really bad people.


Under Par, although we very often disagree, sometimes we completely agree.
What you said above is absolutely correct and you should be commended for it.
01/17/06 @ 15:54
Comment from: June [Visitor]
Aren't all American immigrants one time another? I guess a lot of Americans nowadays forget that fact. Maybe your parents came much earlier than present day immigrants. But other than that, what's the difference? And don't talk about you your parents paying a due because I can assure that current immigrants are paying theri due TODAY.
01/17/06 @ 16:31
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
June, I said you were doing good. If you're paying your dues that's fine. Now try to learn something about the subject of this board, golf. You didn' t say what your first language is. u-p, I did specify girls and I did put a smiley face at the end of my first post on this subject.
01/17/06 @ 16:50
Comment from: June [Visitor]
Well, I guess it's time to burst some bubble here. As most of here could guess it already, English isn't my native tongue and I have been here in the States as a graduate student for the past coupel of years. (exactly how long I don't want to specify for personal reason)

Here is the real shocker for some.

I am not a girl but a guy. It was some fun to watch a lot of people here assume that I am a girl> And I am guilty as charged for leeting the misconception went on like that.

I just spelled it J-U-N-E for the benifit of pronunciation since that's exactly how to say my name in my native tongue only to find out ocne I get here that June is a girl or I should say woman's name/

How should I know? I only find it out after I received tons of junk mail postmarked to Ms. June so and so.

So my big secret is OUT. And back to golf.

And sorry about alot of mispelling. I am a lousy typist and a lazy spellchecker. BAD combination for internet forum.

01/17/06 @ 17:06
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
Now that you're out of the closet, maybe you can say what your native tongue is. You Wie nuts are too funny. I thought it was bad when you said it would take MW ten years or more to win on the PGA tour. But your buddy Norman did you two better. His prediction is for TWELVE years down the road. Did you two ever think of forming a comedy team? Like Abbott and Costello? Or Laurel and Hardy? How's about you add alan and make the Three Stooges? Nobody on this earth can predict anything ten or twelve years hence with even a slight degree of accuracy. You folks just CAN'T be serious.
01/17/06 @ 17:52
Comment from: June [Visitor]
John Z, I think only people who is delusional like yourself would have claimed that Michelle would win a PGA earlier than say 10 years from now, even if she ever. (Because most people thought a woman's game is fully mature in her mid-20 to 30.)

What are you talking about? Get real, bozo.
01/17/06 @ 17:58
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
June, you made more sense when you had a dress on. I don't know where to start with you. Are you studying any reading comprehension at night school?
01/17/06 @ 18:22
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]
If his name is pronounced "June," he's obviously Asian. And you can be amused, June, at the fact that we believed you were female if it tickles your funny bone. But be not surprised -- you were very convincing. Your posts exuded a certain . . . uh . . . let's say, effeminacy.

By the way, you must be in the process of getting a Ph.D; you seem just like the type.
01/17/06 @ 18:24
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]
One more thing. Yeah, June, the new immigrants really are paying their dues. Like when they sneak across the border, spread disease, and avail themselves of social services. That's not to imply that you're in that boat, but don't try for a second to tell me that the character of the new immigrant is identical to that of the immigrant of the days of yore.
01/17/06 @ 18:28
Comment from: June [Visitor]
Under par, your last post doesn't warrant any response but I will try.

All the immigrant (legal or illegal) you just collectively bash, what you think they want here?

Just a little better tomorrow than today. Just like your parents of parentof parents not so long ago.

Is that a crime?
01/17/06 @ 19:02
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]

Actually, by definition, coming here illegally IS a crime. You don't know even that? That's why it's called "ILLEGAL immigration."

And yes, everyone wants a better tomorrow, but does that mean we should just throw open our borders and allow anyone and everyone entry? Listen, if you're not interested in becoming American and protecting our country, please go back whence you came.
01/17/06 @ 19:13
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]
In fact, how DARE you criticize me for merely wanting to safeguard my borders and culture. What are the immigration policies of the little rice paddy you came from? I bet they throw you in a rat-infested toilet if you're caught there illegally. I know Mexico doesn't allow it.
01/17/06 @ 19:15
Comment from: June [Visitor]
As usual, you are at your best twisting what I wrote.

AS for your comment about illegal immigrants, I don't think anybody wouldn't agree with you. So what is your problem? ;)

My comment on paying a due part is obviously about legal immigrants. Do i have to spell it out that part, too? Use your soem of your briliant brain, Under par.
01/17/06 @ 19:40
Comment from: John [Visitor]
Jackson, I'm afraid that you have jumped the gun by a year. The record you describe as "when Tiger was twenty" was the year 1996, TWO years after Wayne's comparison ends.

Tiger's record for 1995 (and it is fantastic for a 19 year old golfer)
04/09/1995 Masters Tournament T41 + 5 to par
06/18/1995 U.S. Open Championship WD +19 to par
(I believe he was either ill or injured in this match)
07/09/1995 Motorola Western Open T57 + 3 to par
07/23/1995 British Open Championship T68 + 7 to par.

Notice that three of those were Majors and the other perhaps the most prestigious of the non-majors.

For that year his driving distance was 298.5 yds and his putting average was 1.904.

For reference, Michelle so far is driving 286.0 and putting 1.762 and in her sole tournament so far she was +7 to par. A more accurate comparison of their fourth playing year in PGA Tournaments will have to wait until later in the year.

And the comparison to Tiger's breakout year will have to wait until the 2007 season is over.

01/17/06 @ 20:04
Comment from: Norman [Visitor]
John Z,
Many of the pga tour rookies are older than 25. If Wie is like other golfers it could well take her that long to get her tour card.

Anyone who would predict a pga win sooner than that would be a little optimistic.
01/17/06 @ 20:08
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
Anyone who would predict a PGA tour win for any female golfer at any time is more than a little optimistic. Such a person would be fantasizing just as you are with your Michelle Wie PGA victory in twelve years. In twelve years Michelle might be married with three or four kids and for her golf might be a distant memory. That is a lot more likely to happen than her acquiring and keeping a PGA tour card and winning on that tour.
01/17/06 @ 20:34
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]
Yes, John, and people also overlook the fact that the guys are also getting longer every year. Who knows how long the average PGA player will be hitting it in ten years?
01/17/06 @ 23:52
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]
Hey, June, you're the one who said,

"All the immigrant (legal or illegal) you just collectively bash, what you think they want here?"

You mentioned illegal immigrants as well.

You also should know that our current immigration policy discriminates against white people, since it mandates that only 15% of immigrants can be from Europe.

So, yes, I have a huge problem with immigration, as it is being used to destroy my culture.
01/17/06 @ 23:57
Comment from: June [Visitor]
Under par, inquiring mind wants to know. What is your definition of "my culture?"
01/18/06 @ 00:15
Comment from: Blazer [Visitor]
These comments about immigrants legal or otherwise aren't appropriate for this forum.

Hopefully we can conduct ourselves as golf fans and golfers. It's the only sport where etiquette is a part of the rules.
01/18/06 @ 00:55
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]
My culture is the traditional American one, and the fact that you have to ask means that you're part of the problem.

By the way, my ancestors came here and ASSIMILATED -- they didn't ask the country to accommodate them.
01/18/06 @ 01:28
Comment from: June [Visitor]
Under Par, you must be white. You seem just like the type (just like you stereotyped me).

To everybody else, sorry about this sidetrack.
I just took it personal when Under Par stated that multiculturism in USA ia a bad thing. Maybe some of you agree with him. Maybe some of you don't.

For obvious reason, it's you guys' problem, not mine. I shouldn't start commented on it since I got no business in it.

So no more for that stuff from me. Now back to golf?
01/18/06 @ 01:43
Comment from: Johnny N. [Visitor]
John Z, you should read a description about you on Shanks blog. It is very apt.
01/18/06 @ 09:51
Comment from: Corey [Visitor]
Nice blog, Spence. It looks like you're getting some decent traffic no matter how demented. Can I get in on that fivesome at Bobby Jones? See you soon.
01/18/06 @ 10:23
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
Which Shanks blog are you referring to, Johnny N.?
01/18/06 @ 12:34
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]
Took it personally, June? Hey, do they have multiculturalism in your little rice paddy?

You don't even know what multiculturalism is -- you just think you do.
01/18/06 @ 12:44
Comment from: John D [Visitor]
01/18/06 @ 12:49
Comment from: Lester Hinson [Visitor]
Under Par wrote:
"Have you every heard a homeschooled child call a radio show? I have on more than one occasion."


Gosh, now there's a surprise! Under Par listens to talk radio!

BTW, I howled when you wrote: "So, what unites them? It's simple: a reluctance to thrust their beloved children into a dangerous environment rife with negative influences, an environment in which the kids will be indoctrinated with lefist ideas such as feminism, multiculturalism and radical-environmentalism."

Up the meds, Under Par, up the meds.
01/18/06 @ 14:05
Comment from: David [Visitor]
In Britain (just like America), immigrants get everything given to them on a silver platter.

I'm talking about asylum seekers. Hey, I'm not very pleased about black or Asian people being here in the first place (there are no black English people), but what really pisses me off is that they come here illegally, expect everything, get everything, try and destroy our country, often succeed, then have the cheak to treat us like shit in 'THEIR' country.

If I went to Bangladesh tomorrow, I might well be kidnapped or shot down in the street. Here, just look at an Asian/black funny and you'll be branded a 'racist.' Of course I'm racist, because they are racist, too; and are really taking the piss and in many ways ruining OUR culture.

Then they come out with a sob story; 'we're just trying to build a better life, yada yada yada.'

Thing is, though, blacks and Asians are often corrupt even in their own continent. The amount of corrupt Asian and African countries is laughable.

Oh my jesus. Some of them just don't play fair (if we let them in, they should at least follow our rules). A Paki my dad knows got a friend to take his driving test for him, and went the moron got himself into a crash, he had about 10 driving licenses in 'his' car, and didn't know which one to show the cops.

01/18/06 @ 14:44
Comment from: Kyle [Visitor]

The only ignorant jerk here is Under Par-- he needs to get a life and take his boyfriend David with him.

01/18/06 @ 14:58
Comment from: George [Visitor]

Homeschooled people are just a bunch of clueless sheep like Underpar.

They get out in the real world and they have no idea how to function. That's why they end up living in the back woods thinking of ways to blow up the "gov'ment"
01/18/06 @ 15:01
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]

It's a disease that bedevils all of the Western World. As I said, these liberals deserve Mussolini's fate.

As far as June goes, I'm sure he's a decent guy. However, what really frosted me about what he said was the implication that we don't have a right to retain our culture. In other words, every other country has a right to its culture, but we are the exception.

Of course, I can't place too much of the onus on him. he came here and was brainwashed by scum-of-the-Earth white liberals who indoctrinated him with this malevolent ideology. As I said, they deserve Mussolini's fate . . . then again, maybe it's too good for them.
01/18/06 @ 15:05
Comment from: Kara [Visitor]

The BIGGEST compliment anyone has ever bestowed upon Michelle Wie is that Underpar is NOT a fan of hers.

Thank the good Lord--I would think differently of her if I knew such a pathetic sad human being liked her.
01/18/06 @ 15:08
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]
You know, George, you can call me clueless if you want, but you couldn't hold a candle to me in a debate. You think you're my equal? LOL -- that's truly laughable.

I put an idiot Ph.D to shame in Toronto last year at a certain annual symposium they conduct there. Believe me, I'd have you for lunch.
01/18/06 @ 15:10
Comment from: Kevin [Visitor]

Wow- Underpar-

You sound just like the KKK-no wonder you hate Michelle Wie so much.

You know you're embarassing yourself right ?
01/18/06 @ 15:12
Comment from: George [Visitor]

I don't think so Under par- unlike you I actually have some education.

From the intelligence you've displayed here , a 4th grader would mop the floor with you.

Don't be bitter because I didn't spend my childhood sodomizing sheep like you did.
01/18/06 @ 15:15
Comment from: Jennifer [Visitor]


You think you'd have George for lunch??

Now that's laughable--you don't even have the balls to write under your real name.
01/18/06 @ 15:20
Comment from: Jerrod [Visitor]


According to Underpar-there's secret terrorist messages hidden in the new Pizza Hut commercials.
Also, Thomas the Train relays secret messages to Al Queda in the U.S.

He was getting heightened frequencies from his
aluminum tiin foil hat i.e. terrorist tracker...

01/18/06 @ 15:25
Comment from: Sheryl [Visitor]

I think its time to close this blog-at least this particular thread.

You can always count on Under Par to ruin a good debate.
I would ban "David" as well --what a loser.
01/18/06 @ 15:46
Comment from: Tom [Visitor]
Hey. Under Par.
Modesty obviously isn't one of your strong points.
01/18/06 @ 15:58
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]

You all can flap your lips, but you have yet to refute anything I've said substantively.

You won't be laughing when you see what's going to befall you in the future. I will be, though, because I take a measure of satisfaction in the fact that those who are sinking the ship will be squealing the loudest as it goes under.

You folks think you know what's going on in our society, but you haven't a clue. And you'll ultimately find that ignorance isn't all that blissful after all.
01/18/06 @ 16:18
Comment from: Paul W [Visitor]
Cool, the trolls have tired of attacking 16 year old girls and are attacking each other.
01/18/06 @ 16:30
Comment from: Wayne [Visitor]
Spencer Hux says, "I personally wish Wie would have stayed in school..."


Wasn't she taking exams this week? I made the mistake of the "staying in school" denial. Did she drop out yesterday?

Glad you caught that. Blame Wie's father, blame Leadbetter -- for what! Michelle's doing just fine.
01/18/06 @ 17:14
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
George, I believe I read that home schooled kids do quite well in competitions like spellig bees and contests in science, geography, etc. Also, in my school district which is quite large, two home schoolers won National Merit scholarships to prestigious colleges.
01/18/06 @ 19:20
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]
Yes, John, homeschoolers dominate those competitions despite the fact that they constitute only miniscule percentage of the student population.
01/19/06 @ 01:31
Comment from: Todd [Visitor]

The only reason home schoolers dominate those competitions is because THAT IS ALL THEY DO.

You take any kid with average intelligence and make him do spelling and geography drills for 6-8 hours a day and they will dominate competition.

Anyone can memorize a bunch of facts since it requires zero analytical thinking skills.

Get those same kids and put them through a battery of tests covering a wide range of subjects and they will most likely fail .
01/19/06 @ 08:28
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
Todd, are you perchance a public school teacher? If not you sure sound like one. Can you offer any evidence that ANYONE of average intelligence can memorize a certain set of facts? How do you account for the dismal results in public schools throughout this nation, and not only in the inner cities?
01/19/06 @ 08:53
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
Getting back to the original premise of this thread, several posters HAVE let the hype get in the way of facts. We have Norman the spreadsheet man cheerleading for MW while alan is more of the court jester doing a jig and shaking a tambourine. I'll say one thing for Norman, he's an eternal optimist.He can see a ray of sunshine on the cloudiest of MW days. MW loses in the women's amateur, Norman says "good work, Michelle!" She misses the cut at the Casio where 62 out of 98 made the cut in a second rate event, "go Michelle!" She gets trounced 5 and 4 at the Publinx,"she was brilliant!". She misses the cut by four strokes at the Sony,"she's on her way!" Norman, there's nothing wrong with optimism, but your becoming the "Baghdad Bob" of golf bloggers.
01/19/06 @ 12:43
Comment from: June [Visitor]
By definition, rooting for someone is to cheer for that person rain or shine.

You sure could understand it if you are a fan of certain athlete or team. If your team is down, are you stop cheering for them or keep cheering on?

(FYI: I am a die hard Bulls fan and in the middle of another miserable season for the last 7 years since certain guy retired, but not one time I stopped cheering for them.)

So, certainly I can see where Norman came from. Like I said, lovers will love and haters will hate no matter what.
01/19/06 @ 14:12
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]

John is right: you do sound like a government school teacher -- a card-carrying NEA member -- trying to justify a flawed system and dismal results.

First of all, you're so immersed in your ideology that you can't see the forest for the trees. Homeschoolers would not "fail" at your battery of "tests" unless those tests happen to be the phony self-esteem exams that the pinhead psycho-babblers conjured up.

Secondly, Todd, it is true that most all the kids who dominate those competitions, be they homeschooled, in private school OR government school, spend all those hours every day preparing for the competition -- that's what people gearing up for an event do. However, the fact is that homeschooled children are many grades ahead of other kids in EVERY category, like it or not.

Lastly and most significantly, I can say with complete sincerity that your attitude is illustrative of what's wrong with education today (whether or not you're a teacher). You say that "anyone can memorize a bunch of facts"; well, that must not be true since government school kids don't know too many. But that's not even the main point. NEWSFLASH, Todd, that's what education is: memorizing facts! Duh!

And this gets at the problem with liberal modern education "philosophy." The educational establishment NEA scum have failed abjectly at educating students -- in other words, they've been unable to teach them "facts" -- but they don't want to be labeled failures. So, they've sought to avoid being branded as such by redefining what constitutes education. Thus, they say, "Oh, just memorizing facts isn't education!" So, they manufacture all these new teaching models and schemes and place emphasis on dubious qualities, such as what they fancy to be "analytical thinking." Of course, this serves their ends beautifully because these things are often impossible to quantify, rendering a provable assessment of the establishment's effectiveness virtually impossible. In other words, the measures are so subjective that they can easily spin whatever they do as a success. Of course, though, even if they did succeed, it would only be at teaching nonsense. But they don't even succeed at that.

The problem with many teachers is that they've been brainwashed into thinking that their mandate is to be social-engineers and that to accept the position of someone who merely teaches "facts" is beneath people as erudite and important as themselves. Moreover, there is no "analytical thought" -- or any other kind of thought, for that matter -- taught in school because the emphasis is on emotions.

Education has always consisted mainly of teaching facts. If you could do that, American parents from sea to shining sea would be forever grateful. The government school system needs to be pulled up by the rotten roots.
01/19/06 @ 16:01
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]
I forgot to mention, John Stossel just did a report about education titled "Stupid in America." They spoke to a student in New Jersey who didn't know what the Bill of Rights was. You know, Todd, I kinda think it would be good if kids knew about the "fact" that it exists and the "facts" about what is contained therein.
01/19/06 @ 16:06
Comment from: Jim COULTHARD [Visitor]
Every year the US sends a team of 6 high school students to the International(HIgh School)Mathematics Olympics. Every year from 1998 to 2004 one of the students was a homeschooled boy or girl.
01/19/06 @ 18:50
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
Eight hours ago, Todd threw some excrement into the game . So far he has declined to answer. I wonder why.
01/19/06 @ 18:52
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]
Well, maybe Todd is exercising analytical thought in an effort to refute the irrefutable.
01/19/06 @ 19:08
Comment from: Kevin Nichols [Visitor]
Google "David Ludwig" and "Kara Beth Borden." I guess these home school poster kids are going to miss this year's International Mathematics Olympics.
01/20/06 @ 05:40
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]
Hey, Kevin, why don't you Google the thousands of government school kids who commit crimes every year? You want to put money on which group has the higher rate of criminality?

Okay, I think you're done. I doubt we'll be hearing from you again.
01/20/06 @ 06:06
Comment from: Kevin Nichols [Visitor]
>>>"thousands of government school kids who commit crimes every year?"

"Government schools." Lord how fitting that you would describe the nation's public schools as "government schools." Per-nounced "guhment schools," no doubt.

Better double the amount of aluminum foil you line your hat with Under Par, the guhment really is monitoring your thoughts via satellite.
01/20/06 @ 06:30
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]
Kevin, you little leftist punk, I call them "government schools" because, guess what? That's what they are.

And it's better to have aluminum on your head than iron in your head. Your noggin sets off airport metal detectors.
01/20/06 @ 07:09
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]
By the way, I don't see you taking me up on my wager. Keep blowin' smoke, sissy boy.
01/20/06 @ 07:12
Comment from: Jim [Visitor]

By the way,those young Nazi twin singers (groomed to look like a blonde Mary Kate and Ashley) were home-schooled as well.

Under Par--I think now we all know the REAL reason you hate Michelle Wie...
01/20/06 @ 07:33
Comment from: Jon [Visitor]
Under Par,

You and John Z are the biggest girlie men on this board--why else would you guys get your panties in a bunch over a girl trying to compete with men.

Get some balls, and stop being so insecure.

Its not Michelle's fault you two have been beat up by women your whole life.

01/20/06 @ 07:40
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
More words of wisdom from Jon, the quintessential pantywaist, bed wetter, fruitcake. metrosexual,liberal, left-wing, feminist cockroach. For a maggot like you to tell anybody to gets some balls requires that you have more nerve than a daytime burglar. You can't be very smart if that's the best you've got. My advice to you, Richard Cranium, is get with it or get out.
01/20/06 @ 11:09
Comment from: Jon [Visitor]

Poor John Z--Forgot to take your medication today ??

You must have dropped it while you were scouting for animals to molest.
01/20/06 @ 13:12
Comment from: Brianna [Visitor]

John Z-- Just come out of the closet already-that's probably why you're so angry with life. You sound just like that closet homosexual guy in American Beauty.

Or maybe you hate women since your mother used to beat on you everyday .
01/20/06 @ 13:16
Comment from: Chris [Visitor]

Don't get John Z mad-- he might bomb a "guh-ment" building next...

Just kidding...

But didn't you say you were in your 70's already ??

Man you must have lived a miserable life.
You are literally rotting on the inside with all that anger.
01/20/06 @ 13:20
Comment from: Sheryl [Visitor]

Can we get back to golf please ??

The sooner we get back on topic-the sooner Under par and John Z will stop posting their B.S.
01/20/06 @ 13:22
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]

Guess what? The two boys responsible for the Columbine massacre were both government schooled. So, do you want to keep tossing anecdotal evidence back and forth?

Again, the evidence is irrefutable: homeschooled kids exhibit far lower degrees of every social ill than other children. I guess you have a problem with facts.

As for you ladies: you're a good example of what's wrong with this world. I posted a highly intellectual refutation of someone who was impugning a practice that is nothing but good, and you act as if the people who have offered nothing but cheap rhetoric are somehow in the right.

You're no different than the people who crucified Christ.
01/20/06 @ 14:37
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
Sheryl, the topic of this blog as written by Spencer Hux is "Michelle Wie: Don't let the hype get in the way of the facts." Hux thinks that MW is largely hype thus far. So do I. If you don't like it argue with Hux. What the hell makes you think that every blog on this sight has to turn into a Wie love fest? Is it that your liberal, feminist views can't stand up under scrutiny?
01/20/06 @ 15:24
Comment from: Sheryl [Visitor]

What the hell are you people on???

John Z
You and Underpar aren't talking about golf-you're talking about home-schooled kids for goodness sakes!!

Who cares ??!!

01/20/06 @ 15:41
Comment from: Jim [Visitor]


Since you and John Z are such proud Nazi's --you two actually have a lot in common with the two Columbine shooters. They chose Hitler's birthday to commit the massacre.
01/20/06 @ 15:45
Comment from: Jennifer [Visitor]

Can everyone just please put John Z and Underpar on their IGNORE list ---

This is getting ridiculous, they're trying to ruin this site for everyone so DON'T LET THEM.

Let them keep on posting their crap, and just don't acknowledge it. They're getting a sick high out of everyone responding to their crazy rants.

They will go away once you don't feed their pathetic hunger for attention.
01/20/06 @ 15:50
Comment from: Leonard [Visitor]

Alright-- I will ignore the two trolls !

But not until I say that

there's absolutely NOTHING "highly intellectual" about Underpar or John Z for that matter....

Alright-that's it for me---I will not feed the trolls.
01/20/06 @ 15:53
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
Leonard, for your information, "all right" is two separate words. Looks like you didn't go to those government schools very long or very often.
01/20/06 @ 19:03
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]

It takes two to tango. I wasn't the one who made a highly controversial, pejorative statement about homeschoolers, which is what ignited this debate.


Hitler was actually a liberal of sorts, just like you. Remember, "Nazi" stands for: National SOCIALIST Workers Party.

Read it and weep, liberal sissy.
01/20/06 @ 19:33
Comment from: John Z [Visitor]
Sheryl says let's talk about golf and then talks about everything but golf. Brianna, sorry to disappoint you but I'm as straight as an arrow. Since homosexuality is a mainspring of liberal ideology, I just can't help you. Maybe Jon can be of some service.
01/20/06 @ 21:37
Comment from: Under Par [Visitor]
By the way, Michelle Wie will never let the facts get in the way of the hype.
01/21/06 @ 20:06
Comment from: 72 [Visitor]
Sounds to me like "some" of you people need to get a life! Sounds more like a political blog than a golfblog.Booooor-ing!!!!!
05/06/06 @ 15:22
Comment from: 72 [Visitor]
By the way kevin, its gubment. At least thats the way we pronounce it "down south". No disrespect intended.
05/06/06 @ 15:37
Comment from: Byron [Visitor]
You know, you've called Under Par and John Z idiots for some time now yet its apparent none of you really can hold a candle to them in debate. Now its possible its because this is a GOLF forum not a RACE forum, but the petty insults you keep hurling their way merely underscores how pitifully you fail to counter their arguments.

This is saying nothing to what I believe, but spewing forth insults and ideology instead of trying to find cracks in their points kind of reinforces the claim of 'brainwashed' they're trying to make against you.
05/16/06 @ 11:02
Comment from: Samantha Hill [Visitor]
Comment from: Wayne [Visitor]
Hey Jackson

Blah blah blah. Just tired of people telling Wie to stop playing against the menShe only has a bunch of tournaments on the LPGA that she can accept and if she were to forget about the men's tournament she'd find herself not competing for a couple of months at a time.....................

That's rubbish and you know it...she thinks she is too good to compete against other women on slightly shorter courses (ever heard of an iron off the tee Michelle, it's quite simple really, and you might find the fairway a bit more) and her 'marketing team' (dad, nike, whoever) know they will make some serious dosh out of it.

My issue with it all is that yes, she could be taking the place of a tour pro who is struggling to keep their card, and also, WIN A WOMENS EVENT FIRST. Someone like Annika, with a phenomenal record, could be forgiven for looking for another challenge -surely it would do her more good to win a lpga event than simply make the cut (althought it appears to be not as simple as Michelle thinks) in a pga one.

and all of you going on about immigrants? get over youselves, you make yourselves sound spiteful, inarticulate and narrow minded. although that probably isn't far off.
08/12/06 @ 07:54
Comment from: Tonay B. [Visitor] Email
I think she could use some breast implants, D's - that'd be hot.
01/12/07 @ 12:53

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