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25 comments

Comment from: Wendy (UK) [Visitor]
Reduced to following it on-line. What's your advice to the LPGA's marketing suits?
04/05/08 @ 17:14
Comment from: Brandon Tucker [Member] Email
It will be tough to take any TV time away from the PGA Tour.

They need to go after the Champions Tour. They must walk into the networks office and explain to them the Champions' Tour ratings are misleading because at least 40% of the viewership has fallen asleep in the recliner - and also explain that advertising with the LPGA is more effective because women are more impulsive buyers than men.

Stereotypical sure, but worth a shot.

04/05/08 @ 17:34
Comment from: LPGAFAN [Visitor] Email
A test pattern would get a higher rating than an LPGA telecast. IF, there were any ratings I would expect that KRAFT would pay the money for the event to be on somewhere and at a time someone might actually watch. The LPGA ratings are usually under 1.0 - so no body watches when it is on. They play great golf but if it isn't TIGER all the time, no one is watching.
04/06/08 @ 09:56
Comment from: Wendy (UK) [Visitor]
I'll watch any PGA Tour with or w/o TW, but agree re Champions Tour. Although I'm still fond of a few of them, most have had their day in the sun, and can't be short of a bob or two. Will see if you get any flak/support on this one.

I'll take the stereotyping if it gets me some LPGA major coverage - I'm 5 hours ahead on time, so even more annoying. However, YOU should stop making excuses and at least get your socks and underwear into the laundry basket pronto. Sorry, just a Momma moment there.
04/06/08 @ 10:17
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email
Wendy,

How did your two horses fare in the Grand National?

Have they finished yet, or are they still running?

Alex USMC 1969-73
04/06/08 @ 12:59
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor] Email
Are we entertaining this nonsense again? Most people think that watching women's golf is like watching paint dry. That's why it's not on TV. Women should learn what side their bread is buttered on. Cooking shows do very well.
04/06/08 @ 13:44
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email
Judge Smails,

As I am sure that you know, the best peolple in the culinary field are men. They have been for years.

Besides bearing children, two activities at which women excel are washing and ironing clothes.

Maybe television can start a series about those two vocations. They would probably exceed the viewership of the LPGA, and would be at least as exciting.

Alex USMC 1969-73
04/06/08 @ 13:57
Comment from: Wendy (UK) [Visitor]
How terribly, terribly droll you both are.

Slim Pickings came 4th having just pecked at the last fence; d'Argent fell at the 27th fence out of 30, having been one of the 3 leaders. Perhaps I should have gone for a place instead of a win, but I was far too shy to ask you how to work out the odds.

BT - Blasted LPGA is on a 11pm tonight, by which time I'll already know the result.

In a rush - husband has just shouted "a table"
(haven't got a French keyboard) as he is busy dishing up delectable meal.
04/06/08 @ 14:21
Comment from: Wendy (UK) [Visitor]
Judge Smails - have you HEARD Gordon Ramsey's language? Would one want one's wife or servants
to hear such things? (The latter question, probably a bit obscure, was uttered by the judge in "The Lady Chatterley" censorship court case). Well, he said "read", but same difference. What has it come to that one cannot watch golf or cookery programmes without having one's sensibilities offended?

With your preoccupation with feminine activities, I just know that you were both closet Martha Stewart fans. How you must miss her. I shall try to be more understanding in future.
04/06/08 @ 15:25
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor] Email
Yes, Wendy, I guess Ramsey is as bad as Woods.
04/06/08 @ 16:24
Comment from: Oliver Sudden [Visitor] Email
I thought the coverage we had sucked. They must have shown people jumping into the pond 100 times. And puff pieces about Amy Alcott. They should just show the golf, even the disasters which I assume have gotten the kibosh from higher ups. But the LPGA is defensive. Cristie Kerr made a 7 on a par 3 today, they should show it. It is very difficult to sell a pro sport unless what you are selling is the best but having said that the LPGA has a decent product and a real star in Ochoa so they should try and sell it as serious golf. Stop jumping in ponds and stop with the website articles about menstrual migraines.
04/06/08 @ 21:00
Comment from: Brandon Tucker [Member] Email
Oliver,

Wasn't watching myself (was on the course instead). But that's an interesting point regarding the coverage.

Do you think the tour and network are afraid to show bad shots by the women, because they are fighting the notion that the mainstream sports public thinks, as illustrated in other comments on this post, women golfers are no good? So they try and change it by showing nothing but the good stuff...?

I agree that showing the 7 should be a no-brainer. I mean, they show every John Daly 3-footer missed, followed by the obligatory "where's his head? He's probably drunk" comments.

04/06/08 @ 21:06
Comment from: Oliver Sudden [Visitor] Email
Yes Brandon, they are afraid to show the bad shots and it's a big mistake. People like to see the good and the bad. It is not a reflection on the player's ability but rather an accurate reporting of what happened. Even Tiger makes a triple bogey once in a while.
04/06/08 @ 21:29
Comment from: Brandon Tucker [Member] Email
Makes sense to me! Us amateurs have so many bad shots out on the course ourselves, it helps our ego a little when we see one of the pros make a big number.
04/06/08 @ 21:31
Comment from: Wendy (UK) [Visitor]
I didn't bother watching as it was all over by the time TV coverage started here, but that's an interesting point re covering bad shots if this is indeed the case. At the Zurich they showed Woody Austin blowing it and his interview afterwards "I played like a dog on the last nine holes" and I found that quite gripping TV. As for the previous comments re woman golfers/LPGA, I'm only asking for the option to watch it, not forcing anybody else too. Although they are suspiciously familiar with LPGA statistics in my opinion.
04/07/08 @ 08:51
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email
Oliver and Brandon,

Just in the last year or so, Lorena herself did the same thing, seven on a par three, and without hittin out of bounds or in the water. That one they did show repeatedly.

Look, neither I nor the rest of the viewing public have any grudge against the LPGA or women playing golf in general.

It's just that the LPGA tour is an inferior product. And not just inferior to the PGA, inferior to ANY men's tour anywhere.

The ladies don't have the length off the tee, the short game of the male pros, and their putting is woefully inadequate when compared to the men.

I've been to an LPGA major in Wilmington, DE in 2003 where not one of the women could reach a 495-yard par five in THREE SHOTS in any round.
Not very exciting , to say the least.

After viewing a men's tournament, the ladies appear to be playing in slow motion.

The LPGA tour is to any men's tour as the Pop Warner league is to the NFL.

The viewership corresponds.

Alex USMC 1969-73

04/07/08 @ 09:02
Comment from: The Constructivist [Visitor] Email
Women's golf is poised to do what women's tennis did not so long ago--provide serious drama, tough competition, and exciting play from a constellation of top players. So what if it's not the same style of play as the men? Suzann Pettersen was -11 over the weekend at the KNC. Annika got a T2 despite playing sick all weekend. Mi Hyun Kim is coming back from knee surgery faster than expected. Seon Hwa Lee finally broke through with a good tournament. There are another 20 I could name who have the potential to challenge Ochoa, once they get the early season rust filed off their games.

Sounds to me like Alex hasn't been paying much attention since 2003, but hey, to each his own. My problem is with the golf media, which consistently gets the LPGA wrong. If the people paid to write on golf aren't paying attention, why should TV execs? That's why I'm reading Waggle Room, Hound Dog's LPGA Blog, The Florida Masochist, and Seoul Sisters discussion boards. Eventually the rest of the golf media will catch up to them.
04/07/08 @ 10:40
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor] Email
The Constructivist,

You may have a penchant for watching women's golf despite the poor play relative to the men, but the fact remains that most people want to see the best. You mentioned women's tennis, but what you may realize is that it benefits from an illusion. To wit: that the women are much better than they actually are. I expounded on this here a year or so ago (I was a tennis pro), and I'm not going to take the time again. Suffice it to say, however, that many labor under the illusion that the women are fairly close to the men in terms of ability. And I'm firmly convinced that were it not for this misconception, women's tennis never would have gotten very popular at all.

My point is that as long as people understand that the competitors in a given women's sport aren't as good as the best junior boys, they'll be about as interested in watching them as watching those boys.

Most people want to see the best.
04/07/08 @ 12:13
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email
Judge Smails,

I think that "The Constructivist" unwittingly touched upon one reason for the relative unpopularity of the LPGA tour when he casually mentioned the names of the two Korean ladies.

Now, there can be little doubt that the influx of the numerous Korean women and girls on the LPGA tour have greatly enhanced the quality of the competition. What is confounding and, in my opinion, in large part responsible for the apathy, are the sheer numbers of excellent Korean female golfers,and the accompanying incomprehensible blizzard of names and lack of personal recognition.

There is nothing personal or prejudicial about this observation, just an obvious fact.

Put it this way: If the names of Mi Hyun Kim, Seon Hwa Lee, Na Yeon Choi, Jee Young Lee, Yani Tseng, Jeong Jang, Shiho Oyama, Ai Miyazato, Shi Hyun Ahn Soo-Yun Kang Il Mi Chung Sung Ah Yun Eun-Hee Ji and Jin-Joo Hong were put to a page along with their photographs, how many American golf fans would be able to match the names with the pictures?

KJ Choi, Shigeki Maruyama, and a few other Asian male golfers are recognizable in the US and Europe because they are excellent golfers AND they are very few in number.

Maybe that assessment may not be kosher to the PC crowd but that's the way it is.

Alex USMC 1969-73
04/07/08 @ 13:09
Comment from: Wendy (UK) [Visitor]
Judge Smails - If one only wants to see the "best" why bother to watch any player other than TW when the rest of the PGA players are clearly "second-best" by comparison?

It doesn't matter a fig why women's tennis is popular - can't you sit back, grind your teeth, and let the rest of us enjoy it?

Fleetingly I thought Alex might have a point re the Asian players as I don't know any of them - don't feel for one moment that this makes me rascist, (Whooa, Alex, you accidentally said "excellent.. female golfers"), but I would have watched for my favourite trio of Lorena, Annika and Suzann at the Kraft Nabisco anyway given half a chance. Did better on that one than I did on the gee-gees too.
04/07/08 @ 14:38
Comment from: Alex [Visitor] Email
Wendy,

You surely must realize that when an astute, erudite individual like the Judge refers to the "best," he means the best competition.

And when I said that the Korean ladies were "excellent FEMALE golfers" I mistakenly didn't put sufficient emphasis on the word "female." Kindly note the correction.

Alex USMC 1969-73
04/07/08 @ 14:58
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor] Email
Alex,

Yes, there's no doubt that the influx of Asian players has done little for the marketability of the LPGA Tour. Many will think I'm trying to incite trouble with what follows, but in a figurative sense it's true. As Archie Bunker might say, "Them people all look alike." They don't really (and I dated a couple years ago; the second one was gorgeous, and I can tell you that the first one did not look like she did!) My point is that, for all intents and purposes as far as the market is concerned, they are interchangeable, as you indicated. They're all Asian, they generally don't speak English well, and they're lacking in personality. I don't condemn them, mind you; I understand that our culture is somewhat alien to them and that they just go about their business. Nevertheless, the market does not discriminate, except between those who can deliver the goods and those who can't. And here that involves being entertaining.

Anyway, I'm amazed that you were able to list so many of those Asian players. If you had that all committed to memory, you're a better man than I. Or did you just drop spoons?
04/07/08 @ 19:58
Comment from: Brandon Tucker [Member] Email
Asian-looking players can be marketable, look at Michelle Wie, Yamiguchi, Kwan....Of course, being American and fluent in English helps...

While Joe Sports Fan may group "Team Korea" together, in Asia it's a different story. The LPGA should try and embrace the emerging Asian market more. Heck, throw a major over there while it's hot or at least have more events over there.




04/07/08 @ 20:12
Comment from: Judge Smails [Visitor] Email
Brandon,

I did not say "Asian-looking"; I said Asian. Obviously, Bubbles wouldn't fall into the same category because she's an American and has a rudimentary command of the language. As for personality, not only isn't it lacking in her case, she has an abundance of it. If only it were the right kind.
04/08/08 @ 04:18
Comment from: Wendy (UK) [Visitor]
Obviously you are coming at the marketability of the LPGA from a different angle to me (no criticism intended), but to me the answer is clearly that Carolyn Bivens is useless. Have just watched a video of her on the state of the LPGA Feb.08 and all she does is whittle on about the new logo, drug-testing, slow play, etc, and asked why the Corona is up against The Masters, simply says as the former is not on US TV anyway it might as well be in "a dark week". I thought one of the reasons she had been appointed was because of her marketing skills - she clearly needs to go back to "Sales School".
04/08/08 @ 05:24

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